best way to use 2 batteries with switch

[ILLOGICAL GGC]

i would like to get input on how those of you that have installed multiple batteries with the 1 -all- 2 battery switch have your systems wired.
i have a 210cc and have agm style batteries ,so they can be charged if need arrises by the motor while underway without the problems associated with deep cycle batteries .
my current set up is this and i would like to know if it should be changed based on your experiences
i have battery 1 wired to control the motor starting and running lights only, bilge pump,trim tabs and spot and side flood lights. mostly the things that need to be on while the engine would be running.

battery 2 controls all electronics,anchor and courtesy lights,washdown pump,and everything that would be on with the boat at rest at night.

i mention night because a majority of my current fishing involves being at anchor at night for large red drum. i keep a freshly charged 3rd battery in the starboard rear storage box with leads long enough to bolt to the terminals in the box just for insurance. this season will be the first i will be out with all the new accessories added and i need to do the math to see what the draw down will be on battery 2

my reasoning for this set up is that i should always have a fully charged battery for getting home on and i can always crank up the engine if need be to charge battery 2 in the -all- position. the down side is i cannot crank on battery 2 alone , but must be in -all- position as well.

or would i be better off putting everything on the common and running it all on 1 with a fresh 2nd battery if needed.

any and all opinions would be welcomed. i do have seperate main circuit protection for each "system" now from each battery up to the distribution points, but they can be combined it you guys feel all the stuff needs to be under commom on the switch.
tight lines ya'll
Robert

[Fishahn]

I would think you would want the bilge able to run at all times, not just when the motor runs.

I have the same dilemna. what I want to do and supposedly my motor will allow this, is to have just my motor hooked up to 1 or 2 batteries controlled by my battery selector(1, 2 and all), and all other accessories hooked to another battery which would be directly hooked to a separate designated place on my Yamaha HPDI, which when the motor runs will charge this accessory battery. According to the Yamaha manual and other sales brochures, this motor does have this feature, however all the dealers I've spoken with are not familiar with it.
this way I won't have to worry about the accessories draining the battery while at rest.
right now I just have my one starting battery hooked up to selector switch and my accessory battery just directly wired to accessories, including bilge, lights, GPS, radio etc..
but I have to manually charge this battery. but I don't have to worry about my starting battery ever draining, of course til it dies of old age. but I am thinking of adding a 3rd battery and having 2 just for the motor on the selector switch and my separate accessory battery on its own.

how's that for confusion!

[ILLOGICAL GGC]

almost as confusing as my post i guess!!!!!!!!!!!
i dont think what i got is what i described now that think about it?? i am coming off battery 1 with a #10 to feed all the stuff i listed and battery 2 has a #10 feeding a distribution panel for all that stuff. everything remains hot and i guess the only thing on the common post of the 1-all-2 switch is the motor lead up from the terminal block in the rear hatch. which is ok for me cause with the switch off no one can start the motor or raise or lower the trim. what i guess someone needs to verify for me is this---is the motor charging bat.1 when switch is in 1 and bat. 2 when switch is on 2 and both if on all???
Robert

[k9reno]

that is how mine works. I have run batt one dead and swithched to two and had power for everything and was able to start my motor. I then ran on all and the motor recharge batt one. I dont remember how I killed only batt one. I should prob figrure it out because i have done it a couple times. I think it was leaving my sterro switch on with batt one selected. Oh well live and learn

me cause with the switch off no one can start the motor or raise or lower the trim. what i guess someone needs to verify for me is this---is the motor charging bat.1 when switch is in 1 and bat. 2 when switch is on 2 and both if on all???
Robert

[OspreyVic]

Listed below is part of an article I am writing on what we are doing to our new 210. I decided to post it now in hopes it will spark some good discussion. Just so you know that you will probably see it again in the future.

In no way am I saying that this is the best way or the only way, it is just what I found that made the most sense to me. We just hope it helps the discussion.

On Monday May 16, 2005 we started modifying the battery switches. We did not like the factory installed and traditional OFF-1-BOTH-2 battery switch. Instead, we wanted to use a system best described on the “West Marine” web site. This system uses three OFF-ON battery switches as follows: one switch to connect the starting battery to your starter circuit; one switch to connect the house battery to your boat's distribution panel; and one switch to parallel your battery systems if either battery fails.

With this switch set-up, you simply turn your engine and house switches to the ON position whenever you are onboard, whether anchored, starting your engine, or sailing. The battery parallel switch remains OFF unless there is a complete failure of either battery bank or you have run your starting battery down trying to crank a reluctant engine. When your engine is off, the starting battery is safely isolated from the house loads. It cannot be discharged, even if you leave your stereo on all night.

By isolating starting and house banks, you face a challenge trying to charge them from a single source like single-output chargers or alternators. If you violate the "separation" of the two banks, you face the probability of two dead batteries due to "operator brain-fade". That's why I wanted the West Marine Battery Combiner.

The Combiner 50 is a voltage-sensing relay (13.3 volts) which connects two batteries together when either is receiving a charge. When the charging ceases, the relay opens so that each battery operates independently. You never have to worry about switching to "BOTH" when your engine is running and forgetting to switch back to save your starting battery from discharge when you stop.

Some of the features of the Combiner 50 include: 50 amps continuous rating, 200 amps closing current (2 seconds), 100 amps for 5 minutes, Waterproof - Ideal for exposed mounting in open boats, Simple basic installation, two battery wires and ground, Draws only 0.00005 amps when batteries are not being charged - that's only 1 amp-hour every 2 years.

This product senses the voltage of the battery banks and connect the batteries together whenever one battery's voltage is elevated. Both banks charge simultaneously and remain combined until the voltage drops, whereupon they are disconnected from one another. It's much like having a very attentive engineer flip your battery parallel switch on and off at exactly the right moment. The result is maximum charging performance for two banks, and complete isolation of the two banks to ensure that you can start your engine.

When you arrive on board, turn on the engine and the house battery switches. Leave them on for the duration of your trip, and forget about them. The Battery Combiner will silently charge both batteries when the engine or other charge source is on, and will isolate your batteries when you are not charging. As a result, the possibility of having to call a towing service due to dead batteries is almost entirely eliminated.

On Saturday May 21, 2005, we removed the two batteries that came on the boat. We then removed the two battery trays and using a skill saw we cut one end out of each tray. We have purchased two Lifeline, Group 31, AGM Batteries and while the width was the same as the old one’s, the Group 31’s are longer and higher. We cut and placed a piece of starboard at the end of the new batteries to take the place of the end’s we cut off and purchased two battery tie down straps to take care of the higher batteries. Lifeline batteries have a 5-year pro-rated warranty with a 1-year free replacement. Their specifications can be seen at www.lifelinebatteries.com.

To us, it made more sense to have the setup described above than have three batteries or any other combination of batteries and switches. Yes, the group 31's AGM batteries may be more than needed, but this setup will give me more peace of mind. I would rather have safety as my guide.

Vic in Osprey FL

[steveb.]

Vic,
I am using the combiner 50 and it's working great.2 Questions--

1:/My batteries are different types--one is a starting battery and the other is the biggest i could find deep cell.Should they both be the same type of battery ????
2:/Are the 3 switches you are refering to those big ones like the red 1-2-both-off round ones or are these a smaller type switch?

I did read that article from west marine awhile ago and went with the combiner for now as i wasn't sure on where to put the switches as i have only a 17 cc. thanks steve

[OspreyVic]

Steve, first I am no expert, but everything I have read says that for the best efficiency and performance, both batteries should be the same. The "West Marine" article spells out the switches and they are Blue Sea Systems - Part Number 9006 ON/OFF (Fixed Knob) Mini Battery Switch, with a suggested retail price of $26.99 each. Blue Sea Systems also has available Mini Switch Knob Labels; PN 6600 – Starter, PN 6656 – House, PN 6654 - Emergency Parallel.

Again, in no way am I saying that this is the best way or the only way, it is just what I found that made the most sense to me.

One of the best articles I read was located at http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boat_battery_basics.htm. That article stated: Some manufacturers that have reputations for high quality products are listed below. Note that none of them are cheap.
Douglass (Guardian)
Trojan
Concorde
Lifeline
Optima
Exide-Yuasa
Sonnenschein (Prevailer)

I liked what I read about Lifeline Batteries and ordered them over the phone after not finding a dealer close by. I found in my area, most battery sales places wanted to charge top dollar for the cheapest batteries, and I just did not want to play. I could not find a place locally that would charge a fair price for a high quality product.

I have posted pictures in the 210 Mods section that show my 3 switch setup.

Hope this helps, Vic in Osprey FL

[MolarBoater]

I'm running both starting batteries the same but only one at a time. Alternate batteries each day and they seem to stay charged fully. Have 3 deep cycles up front which could be used to crank.....or remimber that cord that came with your motor, hehe. Back in the 70's and 80's that was what we had to use 50% of the time anyway before being spoiled by the new breed of outboards (and better batteries).
I have learned the hard way to make sure the batteries are sitting level and are cinched down. This is an issue for the 190 Bay at least using traditional batteries. For running the baitwell overnight docked w/o shore power, I have kept shiners and shrimp alive with the large Mr. Bubbles aireator and a gallon frozen milk jug floating in there to cool the water a bit.

[Tums]

There is one thing you need to remember when it comes to the battery switch. It is made to protect you from running out of the power that is needed to operate your outboard to get you home safely. Most people assume that you only need enough power to crank your outboard. There is one case that people often forget that happens from time to time (a Alternator failure). When your Alt. fails your battery then has to replace the amps the motor required from the Alt. to run. Once the battery is drained low enough your EFI engine will quit running. This is the main reason to always have a second battery wired into the switch that you can switch the motor over to when it starts quitting. If you do not have 2 batteries wired in you will be forced to face whatever conditions you are in without the power to control your boat.

[ILLOGICAL GGC]

when i bought my logic 186 bay new in '01 , i went with 2 group 31 agm batteries to power the 24 volt trolling motor. these being sealed and constructed as tough as they were ,i figured they would be worth the extra price to best be used up front in the foward battery box. i held on to them when i sold the boat in '04 and they are currently being used for the 2 different banks in the 210cc i bought in 04. they are a testiment to paying more ($219.00 ea) and having a quality long life battery. the reality is though that after reading your posts and with the funds needed to do the macfest next month, i have decided to paralell these 2 batteries to run my house bank and buy a new group 27 agm to be my start battery.having agm's inside the console will prevent the gass off associated with wet batteries i will get the combiner and tie between the banks and later get the west marine plate that has all 3 switches and install it in the helm e-box where i have the current 1-all-2 switch located. i want my switches at the helm so i dont have to leave the wheel to make switch changes and lock the switches away from trouble makers.
thanks for the input guys.
Robert