10% Ethanol: What does that mean for the engine?

[PAX]

Hi folks,

Up here in Massachusetts we are now having 10% Ethanol added to the gas. Gas stations added big stickers on the pump to "warn" us. That created a lot of commotions in the boating community and raised a lot of questions. So I called my marina and was told that because of Ethanol I should carry filters on the boat and change them often. I understand that Ethanol will "clean" you tank and engine and bring a lot of debris into the engine causing all sorts of clogs and creating issues. To avoid these problems you need good quality filters and change them often. I know that other states also have the 10% Ethanol requirement and was wondering what you were told to do.

Dick any input?

Thanks,

[PAX]

I found this on the site:

California gasoline

[cagrove]

I just put a fuel/water separator filter on my boat for this very same reason. I emailed Triumph...their answer was that they have not heard of any problems associated with ethanol gas. I also emailed my two local dealers and haven't had an answer back from them.

[Tums]

Ethanol fuel may leave boats dead in the water
By J. STAAS HAUGHT Staff Writer, (609) 272-7253
Published: Tuesday, May 2, 2006
Updated: Tuesday, May 2, 2006

If rising gasoline prices aren't enough to keep area boaters out of the water this summer, the gas itself might do the trick.

Boat owners and marina operators say they're concerned that ethanol-blended fuel, now being sold at all filling stations across the state, could damage their engines and fuel systems, putting them in dry dock for the season.

Bud Dickinson, of Mays Landing, is worried about damaging his three boats.

“Ethanol stirs up the junk in your tanks, and if it gets brought into the injectors, it's going to be a real problem,” he said. “Most of the manuals tell you really to take a lot of precaution with ethanol so you don't ruin your engine.”

That's because ethanol acts as a detergent, stirring up sediment left in the tanks. If filtering systems fail or get too clogged, the residue could find its way to the engine.

“If your filter works, once that first tank is done, you'll probably be OK, or you might have to change your filters several times, but who wants to ruin a $14,000 engine to test that?” Dickinson said.

From May through October, all gas sold in New Jersey has to be treated with a pollution-reducing additive. Traditionally, that has been MTBE, but recent studies raised concern about its effects on groundwater, so the state ordered a switch to E10 gas, so-called because it is 10 percent ethanol.

Most drivers won't notice any difference running the cleaner-burning E10 in their cars or trucks, but boats are designed differently and the fuel can be a problem in marine applications. Most newer car engines were designed with E10 in mind, while most boat engines are older and were designed to run on other fuels. Wawa posted notices on its fuel pumps last weekend warning customers that some boats will need preventive maintenance to run on E10.

David Brown, owner of Thompson Marine in Egg Harbor Township, said most boat owners are expecting problems.

“I don't think anybody really knows anything yet, and that's kind of the issue. We're not sure what to expect. We had a problem long ago, in the late 70s and early 80s when they tried ethanol before, with fuel lines and rubber hoses breaking down, so there' some concern we could see the same thing this time,” Brown said. “There's also an issue with the ethanol mixing with water and fouling up the engine.”

Traditional gas, and even MTBE-treated fuel, doesn't mix with water, so any water in a boat's fuel tank can be pumped out before it creates a problem. Ethanol, however, is water-soluble, so it mixes with water and carries it into the engine.

“With the old fuel, if you get some water in there, you can pump out from the bottom and still save the tank (of gas). But with ethanol, the boat just won't run and you waste a whole tank of gas,” said Jack Madore, owner of Graef Boat Yard in Somers Point.

But, Graef said, ethanol poses another concern for boaters.

“The big issue for some of the high-end boats is their tanks. Ethanol eats away at fiberglass tanks,” he said.

That has Scott Raab really worried.

“I'm not going to put it in the water as much this year,” Raab said of his 28-foot Bertram fishing boat. “I don't know what kind of damage the ethanol fuel might do, so I don't want to risk it too much.”

Seaworthy magazine cautioned boaters last fall that ethanol could break down the fiberglass, creating a black sludge that gums up valves and intake manifolds, destroying the boat's motor.

“That's not a cheap fix,” Madore said. “It involves cutting out the tank and replacing it with an aluminum one. It's a lot of money and several weeks without your boat.”

Brian Lefebvre, an assistant professor of chemical engineering at Rowan University, said ethanol's chemical characteristics raise another concern for boaters.

“Ethanol can actually suck the moisture out of the air, so if there's any leaks or pressure problems with the fuel lines, it's going to mix water into the fuel,” he said.

Older boats with worn seals and gaskets on fuel systems are at greatest risk, Brown said.

“It's going to cost owners some money in maintenance and repair at first, I think,” he said, adding that occassional boaters would probably suffer the most.

“The guys with their boat in the back yard they take out every once in a while, as soon as they have a problem with it, they're probably not going to be able to afford to repair it. They might not even get it in the water,” Brown said. “I feel really sorry for the guy who has an outboard and doesn't have any filtering system at all. He's in for real trouble.”

To e-mail J. Staas Haught at The Press:

JHaught@pressofac.com

[PAX]

I just realized that what I have in my tank today and since last October is .... E10 because the last place I refueld was Montauk, NY.
I called the Montauk marina to confirm and yes it was/is E10. I actually used E10 for two days last year without knowing it was E10 and did not notice the difference. Anyway, I called my dealer/marina and talked to the owner. He is not too concerned with E10 when it comes to fairly recent Triumph. Apparently changing the fuel filter often and keeping the tank as empty as possible if not boating for a long time should be the only things to do. I am picking my up on the 27th of May and plan to run it that day. I will let you know.

[Genelie]

Well as for stirring up sediments, our tanks are made of plastics, so where would sediments come from....the pump?? well I have never had a problem yet, I also all ways leave my tank full. Even over the winter storage.

[PAX]

I am just repeating what my marina said:

1) E10 will clean the thanks of the trucks carrying the gas, the gas station tanks, etc .... we are at the end of the chain and will get crap in our tanks.

2) Ethanol does loose it's octane content very quickly impacting engine performance.

Quite frankly I am at a loss with all this but truly appreciate a positive input on E10. Glad to hear that you have not been impacted at all.

[MolarBoater]

Good E-10 fuel read.
http://www.burrbros.com/fuel.doc