Trailer bucking - thread from old site

[OspreyVic]

From: JR_Gar_Fisher (Original Message) Sent: 4/12/2004 1:45 PM
My 190 being towed down the road on the trailer (duh) was a pretty rough ride. I noticed in the rear view that every time we hit a bump in the road the trailer would flex between the hitch and the axle. When this happened it would give the truck an extra whack. So I set out this weekend to fix it. Towed it to town and over the scales we went. Had 3020 on the axle with 360 on the tongue. Too heavy in my opinion. Back home we moved the axle forward 1” and here we go back to town. Only made 20#’s difference. Another 1.5” changed the tongue weight to 300#’s. Another 1.5” brought the total move to 4” and I stopped with a tongue weight of 280#’s. Am considering moving it more.

Short story: the farther we moved the axle forward the less the trailer bucked and that 4 inches all but eliminated it. It made the ride in the pickup 100% better and no noticeable sway was ever encountered due to the lighter hitch weight.

What a shock as to how much these boats weigh. Granted, the trolling motor, dual batteries and all that gear in the front lockers complicate matters. I also had only about 3/8 tank of fuel and the tank is located in front of the axle.

I guess I did not think I could make my boat that **** heavy when I commented in an earlier post about the trailer tires only being rated for 1460# each. I am not going to worry about it much but I did buy a spare and I will “never leave home without it”. JR


From: LogicDave1 Sent: 4/17/2004 10:37 PM
Hear ya there man....The biggest thing that adds weight other than the motor is Fuel, batteries and water. I know on the 210 with a 85 gallon tank, that's at or over 600 lbs of fuel! Water in the livewell is another 210 lbs, I have 3 batteries at 50 somethin' lbs. etc.

Sure that's why manufacturers give the "dry" weight w/out motor. Sure looks good #'s wise on paper, but by the time you add all the crap you need to go fish, rig the boat the way you want, then add the fuel, motor, water, and batteries, things get a lot heavier.

Sound like you have your tongue weight at the range you want, thanks for the info on that. Tedious process, but you'll definately reap the benifits. Too much tongue weight also creates un-do wear on them truck rear tires too!


From: SteveZ Sent: 4/19/2004 9:03 AM
As a rule, from my 7 years at U-Haul in the early 80's, your tongue weight should be 10% of total trailer weight. This is easy to accomplish in a U-Haul Trailer, because you load it one time, and the weight doesn't change. BUT, in a boat trailer situation, the stuff we put in the boat on the way there isn't the same as the stuff we haul back home, e.g., ICE, Fuel, Water, etc. Especially if you put ice in both forward lockers. But the theory is that if you load ice in the forward lockers, and have a full fuel tank in the rear, they will both deplete at an acceptably equal rate.

So, try the 10% rule empty, then drive across the scales again with your rig loaded as you would to head out for a day on the water. Would be interesting to see how the ratio changes. Let us know.


From: JR_Gar_Fisher Sent: 4/19/2004 1:35 PM
Thanks for the responses guy’s. It is important for me to reduce my tongue weight because I pull the boat behind my 5th wheel. More important was to cure the bucking to prevent failure of the trailer’s hitch. The camper is a 28 footer and tow vehicle is a Ford Super Duty Crew cab. That is a pretty long “train” to haul down the road and I don’t want to have any trouble. I have done this many times before but with a smaller boat. Am anxious to see the new white plastic boat behind the white camper being pulled by the white truck. I will post pic’s of the rig when I hookem all together (next week but not to TBOT). JR


From: Wanabeiz Sent: 4/19/2004 11:23 PM
JR, I too tandem my 5th wheel with my boat. During the past 5 year, I've towed with a 14' Zodiac and 50HP Honda on the back. Never a problem, except for one blowout.

My setup is a 33' 5th wheel and Starcraft (soon to be 190 bay with 115 Merc optimax salt) for a total of 73'. Max legal lenght here in Ontario is 75', so I'm getting very close to max. And yes, it can be nerve wracking at times. I have all my fuel stops planned in advance. Flying Js are great for me as I can get about 250 miles per tank before I need fuel and most the "Js" are in around 230-245 miles apart. While fueling, I do the once/twice and sometimes three times around the rig to make sure everything is ok.

Happy Hauling, Paul


From: foul-hooked Sent: 4/23/2004 10:50 AM
Just a suggestion. It would seem easier to put longer bunks on the trailer and move the bow wench back. Moving the boat back till the tongue weight is good, then trim the bunks to proper length.

Moving the axle would seem to change the angle of the leaf spring movement? OR did you move the actual leaf spring too? That my 2 cents.


From: JR_Gar_Fisher Sent: 4/23/2004 11:53 AM
The whole axle assembly with the springs is clamped to the trailer frame with two U-bolts. Two more U-bolts hold the fender assembly and the entire mess is pretty easy to move. I used a floor jack under the axle to get the trailer high enough to use jack stands to suspend the axle. I marked the frame on both sides so I could accurately relocate it square. With the tires removed all you have to do is loosen the 8 hex nuts on each side and slide both forward to your measured mark. Tighten the nuts making sure you are on your mark, reinstall the tires and you are done. Moving the boat on the trailer was an option. I have about 4 or 5 inches of bunks sticking out the back and thought I could safely move the boat back about 2” and still be supported properly. That is the next thing to do if I feel it necessary to further lighten the tongue weight. In fact the bunks stick out so far behind the boat I had to make a tool to install and remove my drain plugs. I am getting a lot of boat and expensive motor hanging out behind the trailer axle and am a little worried about dips and humps in the road. Oh by the way, the boat was on the trailer and the trailer was hitched to the truck while all this work was happening. JR


From: Wanabeiz Sent: 7/28/2004 8:32 PM
JR, Got a chance to do a long trip with the 5th wheel and Triumph. 800 miles return with no problems. Pulls like a dream. Thought I would have problems with the bucking issues that you've had in the past, but none yet. Brakes on the Triumph trailer gives the "wagon train" a very positive/reassuring feel. Also, had installed an X10 wireless camera on the back for the trip to Florida in March, but couldn't get it to work for the interference. Something with the truck's internal electronics when travelling down the road. The brake control recks havoc on the video too. Scrapped the wireless idea and installed an X10 low light B&W wired camera ($79). I put it under the bumper on the trailer on the passenger side pointing diagonally. My main concern was the tires, as I've had a few blowouts in the past. The cable run was easy. I ran it along the bottom of the 5th wheel and up to the gooseneck. I have another cable that goes from the truck driver's seat to the interior of the box through an air vent (no drilling of holes). When I couple the trailer, all I have to do is make on extra connection for the camera. It uses Cat 5 cable with 6 wire RJ45 connectors (all purchaseable at Home Depot). It works great. One thing though, it would have been nice to have a wide angle camera for that view, but X10 doesn't have a wire one yet. Another nice thing with the camera is once the boat is uncoupled, I can use the camera for rear trailer viewing and backing up. It has a microphone built in , so when the better half and I are backing into those tight campground sites, I'm not only able to here her yelling at me, but I can also see her hand/finger gestures!! Actually, we've been doing this for almost 10 years and we've gotten pretty good at it. Heck when someone asks if I need help setting up and backing up, I always politely refuse. It doesn't seem right to have a stranger help you back your trailer into a tree or picnic table. TTYL Paul

[tfink]

Hey Vic,

I was out on the site doing some research to see if anyone has moved the trailer axle forward to lighten the tongue weight when I found your post here. Thanks for bringing it over from the old site.

I tow my 195DC with a Nissan Murano, it's not the ideal tow vehicle as it max's out at about where the boat, motor, trailer and some accessories are. I was thinking that I wanted to lighten the tongue weight a bit so the Murano didn't ride so low in the back and was wanting to know what people thought. Bad idea or good idea? Give it to me straight... I can take it!

[OspreyVic]

tfink, it is my understanding that tongue weight is normally maxed out at 10% of what you are towing. Checking your owners manual for your vehicle would be my starting point.

Then its a case of finding scales you can use to find out where you are now.

On 12/28/2005 we had the opportunity to have our 2005 Triumph weighed. The “Irresistible” came in at 4,585 pounds with a full tank of fuel, the Yamaha F-150 four stroke, and the Rolls Axle trailer. We calculated the tongue weight at 300 pounds. If you have read our modifications Article, then you know this also includes the radar arch, two Group 31 AGM batteries, electronics, etc.

Our setup gives us a good ride with no bounce unless we go over railroad tracks or something that rough.

Changing things to see what happens is not all bad provided you start with all you can learn first. You can always move back to where you currently are. Might also check with your auto mechanic, maybe heavy duty shocks and springs are your best answer. Just need to know where you are now before proceeding. Harder to ask good questions without having some answers first.

Glad you found this old post helpfull.

[fridaysoff]

Like Vic said if the tounge weight is around 10% of your total weight it is about right. That being the case then you changing it to make your vehicle tow better may be a bad idea. It sounds like you may be maxed out already. You need to consider the weight inside your tow vehicle also,and the 60 gallons of fuel in your boat,etc. Maximum for towing is only one consideration. You have to consider "safe" towing.Can your vehicle stop the weight that it is towing safely if you had to avoid an accident by stopping abruptly? Good luck . Looking into heavier shocks,etc. may be a better solution.
John D.

[tfink]

John and Vic,

I like your idea about beefing the suspension on the Murano. I had thought of that before, but I thought that moving the axle would cost nothing and beefing the suspension would cost something. But I guess you can't put a price on safety. The Murano does pretty well all things considering, I've taken it as far as Lake Erie (about 4 hours to Lorain), but I'm not comfortable taking it much further. I'm taking it to Norris Lake, TN in June, but we're taking a buddy's Silverado. A Ford F250 or F350 diesel is on the wish list... someday... when I when the lottery. :-)

Tim

[OspreyVic]

tfink, glad to offer ideas. After all my ideas are cheap, its your money. Don't know you need to move that big in a truck. Our Explorer does a great job and is much easier to park than a big pickup. If the ramps you use are not slippery, you can even go with two wheel drive and get better economy. We will just keep our 2005 4 wheel drive V8. At less than 10,000 miles per year, we would never break even with anything that would get any better gas mileage and still pull the boat. If and when they every come out with more diesel suv's we might consider a change, but certainly not till then.

[tfink]

Vic,

I like the idea about the big diesel becuase it doesn't matter if you're towing 15,000 lbs, 5,000 lbs or 0 lbs, your fuel mileage stays consistent. A buddy of mine has an F350 diesel and gets 18-21 MPG, even when he tows a heavy load. You are right though it is a lot a truck for my boat. Oh well, it'll just sit on my wish list for a while.

Tim

[Putershark]

Originally Posted by tfink

Hey Vic,

I was out on the site doing some research to see if anyone has moved the trailer axle forward to lighten the tongue weight when I found your post here. Thanks for bringing it over from the old site.

I tow my 195DC with a Nissan Murano, it's not the ideal tow vehicle as it max's out at about where the boat, motor, trailer and some accessories are. I was thinking that I wanted to lighten the tongue weight a bit so the Murano didn't ride so low in the back and was wanting to know what people thought. Bad idea or good idea? Give it to me straight... I can take it!

The Murano is a nice ride and also has the award winning VQ (who needs a V8) V6 that they install in serveral of their rides



Problem is, the Murano does not have a sub-frame nor the transmission to really handle towing larger loads, and I could not even find any upgrade shocks from Bilstein to help the sagging rear end issue you talked about for it. I though just traded in my 93 octane needing Pathfinder for a 87 octane able, shift on the fly, 4WD Xterra that has the same sweet VQ V6 engine as my Pathfinder And to be frank, the Pathfinder with a K&N air filter and Mobil 1 in the crankcase (with the way I drive) was not hard on fuel considering it was a 2 ton truck. I got about 17.5 in town and well over 21 on the highway....

So I now have a 6000 lbs of towing and I "Fear no Tide or Ramp" with all that grunt and stick So you may want to consider running down to the Nissan dealer and see what kind of deal you can get on your Murano for either a Pathfinder or Xterra since the Murano is a nice cross over auto that will (at least this week) still bring in a better trade than your average SUV