That Sinking feeling.....

[REDiEYE]

I have a new 2003, 190 Bay (purchased new from Dealer in Nov. 04.... used 1.5 seasons). Yep... I'm new to ownership.... had to wait 65 years! I apologize in advance it this is long but I have a hard time with naratives!

Being a new owner, I didn't realize I had a relative severe problem from the beginning. I had a leak that has taken me a year and a half to recognize and document (about 40 hours of usage). It took the boat almost scuttling at our shallow water dock for it to finally hit me in the head.... you know, light bulb going off! We had to leave it from the 4th weekend as water was so low there was no way to get it out and back to the marina where it resides in dry storage. A heavy rain storm ensued when we were gone and somewhere in that time line the 500 GPH bilge pump decided it had had enough...... battery was OK. Had it not been for a "really good neighbor" the 135 Honda would have been awash....

Here's what I ultimately found.

1. There is a separation in the left-side drain line of the splash well. This leaked much of any water entering the well into the bilge rather than draining it outside. Yes the transom was about 2 inches underwater.
2. As the water level increased in the boat the scuppers started pumping water into the boat.... never would have believed it!
3. After arriving on the scene, pumping it and replacing the bilge pump I set about in earnest to find the root cause.
4. With the pump disconnected and the boat at rest tied up at the dock on a calm day it took on water at the rate of close to an inch an hour…. Something that was never particularly evident with the auto pump running. I never spent that much time with it tied up at our dock. Last summer, during routine maintenance, I told the dealership I suspected a leak. Their answer….. No, everything was OK. I had filled the bilge a couple of times, when it was hauled out, and only noted minor drips from both bilge drain plugs and the live well intake port.
5. After much work it seems apparent the primary culprit is the drain line from the Gas Tank Overfill Drain. From the outside it is an open port (normally several inches underwater). Visually from the inspection port in the Splash Well it has a ¾ inch rubber line with what appears to be a check valve about 8 inches from where it exits the transom. It took quite a bit of sleuthing to finally figure out what it is ...... it’s not shown in the owner's manual nor could the dealer tell me what its purpose was by phone. It’s the drain line from the Gas Tank fill area for spill protection. This shouldn’t cause a major leak problem. So you except when placing a hose into the outlet that it would either spray back (from presumed check valve)... but it doesn't, so it's apparently either not a check valve or not working. Water vents from the drain hole by the Gas Cap. Still no major problem until you place a thumb over inlet..... then you hear water running into the bilge.

My questions are:
(1) I’ve established the potential for the line to leak, but since I haven’t removed everything necessary to access the line under the console, is it reasonable to assume there is enough backpressure when the drain hole is several inches under water to produce a leak of this size. If so, how isolated is this problem. Why would a fitting of some type be used (at least 2) inside the bilge, when the purpose of the line as I interpret it, is to prevent explosive vapors being introduce inside the bilge.
(2) It seems logical to me that the line in question should drain above the water line. Why several inches below?
(3) Does anyone have ideas suggestions on helping the scuppers seal out water?
(4) I’ve gotten several “schools of thought” on adding a redundant bilge pump. What suggestions do you have and if so, sizes?

Many thanks in advance!

Ben

[ILLOGICAL GGC]

guess i will start this one off by saying i had an 01 logic 186 and with the 115 yama 4s my side scuppers never kept the water out. at anchor in the pamlico sound drum fishing and with waves breaking over the bow ,we would have up to 4 inches of water at times on the deck. i would have to open the access door and let the extra water run into the bilge and then the bilge pump would get rid of it. because the rear was soo heavy my side scuppers stayed underwater and as the flappers failed here came the water to the deck.. the foam practice tennis balls to plug the holes was bout the only thing i found to work. some of us have installed an inline check valve unit ,but i sold my logic b4 they ever posted that solution.

now the gas overflow is a new one for me. i would think the only way water could get into the bilge is that the hose has a hole either from freezing when the check valve was working or from damage. i found this weekend while replumbing my livewell on my 01 210cc that the 1-1/2" drain line had failed where it had been flattened as it turned around the fuel tank and bent down to the thru hull fitting. the pvc reinforced ribs were all broken and the plastic hose had cracked and deteoriated away so that everytime water ran in the overflow of the livewell most of it was draining into the bilge. mind you this is an 01 210 ,but things do breakdown if installed contrary to normal.

if you are not a small person you will need to get a small person to stick themselves into the access door and look for water entering the bilge as you fill the gas overflow hose with water ,if in fact that is where the water is coming from.

i have had the rubber gaskets on the 2 transom drains to fail and with the water pressure
of the boat in water dumps a bunch of water into the bilge

the bilge pump discharge thru hull fitting is also at waterline and as also discussed in another recent post ,that owner was getting water into bilge from that line

anyhoo that is all i can come up with right now and i will leave it to my plastic seat sweaters to come up with other possible sources

JUST REMEMBER THESES ARE CHALLANGES TO MAKE YOU A BETTER OWNER NOT PROBLEMS TO THROW YOUR HANDS UP IN THE AIR AND COMPLAIN ABOUT!!!!
NUFF SAID
ggc


BTW WELCOME TO THE FAMILY OF THOSE THAT GET IT!!!!!

[NCangler]

Hi RediEye. Sorry you're having problems and that sounds like a big one! I'll see if I can get an answer or at least some suggestions on where to start. Is your dealer still involved in trying to fix this?

[MolarBoater]

See "Finger in Hole" test. Replace scuppers with "ball in cup" design. Check all thru hulls on the trailer by putting all plugs and add water to questionable areas. Keep the hull dry and check for water trying to leak out the boat.
I have had my Bay 190 completely flooded.....several times..... with water and the outboard motor head never got wet as well as my batteries also function fine. Always keep bilge pump on "cycle" but if you have water coming in, it could run down batteries after 2-5 days depending on how much it is having to run.
Lastly, research all old threads in this forum.
Good Luck and keep us updated with what you find....it can help someone down the road!
Molar

[Cincinnati]

Hey RED - are you saying that you forced water into the starboard-side stern fuel vent drain and it came out of the fuel vent at the console? I'm not sure of the configuration - thought that this hose was meant to drain water that collects at the cap during wash-down or spillage when fueling. This hose should be well clamped fuel-grade rubber. Check the clamps at either end. The only other thing I can think of is if your seat anchor screws may have punctured the line as it runs along the inside starboard side under the main center grey panel.

Does your boat have the side scuppers? If you're getting water backflowing from the scuppers, then it is probably getting into the bildge through the grey panels on the deck.

Open up the inspection plate in the splashwell. Look at the seal job on your thru-hulls in the stern. Mine have at least 1/2" of Rule sealant bead around each thru-hull.

Let us know how you progress.