water getting into foam

[jergofish]

Putershark, I think I understand where the "inner hull" area is now, it's that foot of area from the transom to where access to the bilge pump is. why not drill the drain hole on the inside of the boat so that the water from the inner hull drains into the bilge and then is pumped overboard by the bilge pump. Couldn't you just leave the holes open then and in fact, make them good sized at that so that the water drains easily, say a one inch hole both on the port and starboard sides, maybe even put a vent hole up higher on each side to allow air in as water drains out.

From the few washdowns I've done of my boat it seems that the bilge pump is pretty effective in removing almost all the water in the bilge and I have less than an inch when the pump kicks off.

I presume that any other leaks into the foam bunks that run fore and aft eventually drains to the stern and to that area where the drains are?

[k9reno]

JERG
You dont understand the location quite yet. the areas of foam that are above the level of the bilge do have drain plugs in them that can be opened and drained into the bilge area. they however are seldom the problem with water intrusion. The inner foam area that tends to have the water problem is under the floor of the bilge area and just drilling a hole into the bilge wont get the water to flow up into the bilge. The lowest point of that foam area is near the keel. That is why the drain is placed just starboard of the center stringer on the transom .

[jergofish]

k9reno, thanks for the reply. My problem is that I plan to keep the boat in the water ten months out of the year. It will be in a covered berth and the only time it will get wet is in some light rain or during the time I do a washdown, mostly of the deck and some sea spray on rough days which won't be many since the area is in the Sacramento/San Joaquin Delta rather than the ocean.

Becuase it will be in the water I won't have the luxery (or pain?) of having to trailer the boat and let it sit with the transom drain plug out.

Has anyone figured out the chief offending areas where water gets into the inner hull? and are all of the four inner hull foam stringers interconnected at the transom area? In other words, does each of the five areas have to be drained seperately or do all of them come together at the stern?

Looking at the transom area from the bilge hatch cover it appears that I could drill a hole into the bulkhead that's aft of the bilge pump and only be about two to three inches up from the hull's exterior. That would mean that the most that could collect in the transom cavity is about two to three inches of water in the lowest triangle of the transom. If all that's there is plastic and foam that small amount of water should not be a problem.

A major concern though is whether the stainless keel stringers are also connected to the inner hull cavity so that water in the transom cavity will reach the stringers. With the Rule seal, we'd never know until it blistered and ruptured.

If what I've written still indicates that I'm clueless about the problem, maybe somone that's been there could make a sketch, photo it and post it to help us "clueless" people out. It would sure be appreciated since I'd like to be proactive on the whole deal rather than reactive.

A final thought. If I am somewhere near correct in my assessment of the problem, and I were to drill the right sized hole (s), I could plug it (them) with a thermos stopper so that I could drain the area and then plug it, similar to the exterior plug.

[Codfish]

Jerry,

You have approached the water problem from a different direction (literally) and I think you may have a reasonable solution with your bilge area drain hole. I think most of us have experienced unwanted water in the bilge and we have questioned where it came from. Some mysteries have not been solved. Some have found cracks in the outer hull, some cracks in the inner hull. If you keep your boat in the water, and the bilge accumulation is minor, your inside drain hole may just be the ticket. The "void", filled with foam, between the transom and the rear bilge wall is probably larger than you realize. The worst case scenario I see is if your bilge pump fails and you accumulate a large amount of water, it will fill into the foam void area and create quite a weight problem. That is if you leave the inside plug out of the hole while you are moored, which is the advantage of your design. Yours will work if the inner hull water accumulation exceeds the bilge accumulation. You must have more water in the inner to force it to exit into the bilge. If the bilge level exceeds the drain hole then it will fill into the inner hull.

That said, you need to be sure your bilge pump is fool proof. The Rule brand, with the internal float switch, is not fool proof, especially once the bilge gets an accumulation of fishy water from the fish box drains. The float will stick down and not rise with the water level. The pump does not activate and the bilge fills to the deck line or above. Someone steps on board, dislodges the float and the bilge then starts. I know it happened to me more than once. Others have also experienced this.

I replaced the factory bilge pump and switch with a new pump and seperate switch that has no moving parts to seize up. It is called a Water Witch and it works flawlessly all the time. See my post on the subject with photos.

If you do experiment with the inner bilge drain, let us know how it goes. You might be on to something there. If it fails, at least is should be an easy fix to plug the hole permanently.


Codfish

[ILLOGICAL GGC]

there is quite a bit of foam as seen in this cutaway of a 190 cc tho this isnt a 210cc it is relevent as to this is basicly how the 210 is made

[jergofish]

Codfish, what you said makes perfect sense to me. Thanks, now besides putting the boat on a set of scales, how in the heck does one figure out if there's water in the foam voids?

By the way, went out today for the third time and actually had a chance to fish. Caught a largemouth on the third cast. A good omen? As to fish in the fishboxes. Sorry, we're pretty much catch and release. I also have an old 100 quart cooler and if we're actually going to keep a fish, it will probably end up in there. The fishboxes hold the life jackets, snorkeling gear, some fishing tackle, etc. anything that can get wet and not rot or stink.

Oh, I forgot, the way I used to keep the bilge clean in my old Western was to suck it out every once in a while with the shop vac. It picks up all the shavings, line bits, small pieces of paper, etc, everything a bilge pump hates. I've been lucky with that method and never had one fail. Now how do you, "knock on wood" in a Triumph!!!

[Putershark]

Here is how I found out my old 210 was full of water though it took a little while to add them all up

• Fuel burn started to increase on my tracking spreadsheet.
• Time to plane was getting longer.
• Harder to pull with my little (at the time) V6 Tacoma
• The one that really told the tale though, was when I was installing one of the very first factory built false floors for the Mega Hold area and when I got to walking around inside the hold, I heard water squishing under my shoes...

After calling the factory and getting the drains sent to me, I started to drill the 2 drain plug holes in the stern. And when the 1 inch wood bit finally made it though the hull, water poured out for quite some time and then streamed for days afterward... All I can say now is good thing it was a cordlesss drill or I may have gotten lit up big time when the water started pouring out

[jergofish]

Putershark, After your tale, I'm pretty much convinced that I need to drill the two drain holes, one starboard, one port and get the small transom plugs used on aluminum boats for each hole. I'll plug them and occasionally pull them as a check on water build up.

One, thing, no one responded to my question if all of the foam stringers in the boat are connected at the stern in that one foot or so of area? Looking at some of the literature, it appears that there are four main foam areas, two port and two starboard and two small stringers near the keel, again filled with foam. If they are all connected at the stern, the single drain or drains, inside or outside the transom, should be sufficient to drain them since most boats sit slightly down at the stern when in the water.

[Putershark]

First my disclamer....
It has been years since I installed mine, only installed 1 set, and I have never seen the cut away of a 210 hull... A call to either the factory, Heartland Marine, or Merritt Marine could bring you up to speed on the "modern placement or placements" locations for the drains. I also used the same type of drains (not those black plastic ones that you can loose) that are seen in the photo section for my present 190. Trust me, those are the only ones to use since they are self retaining and seal up so well

As I was advised by the factory when I installed mine (and really it was quite a simple process), there is a steel bar that runs along the keel. Thus to get the most drainage 2 were needed. Now maybe when they heard how it sounded like a sponge when I walked on the Mega Hold deck, 2 drains were logical / needed to remove all that water? I don't know, but I just saw the third owner of my old 210 the other day at the ramp (small world) and though the boat was not present, he told me that she was doing great, loved the boat, thus I must have installed them correct

• The install locations for mine were 1 inch up and 1 inch over from the center line of the keel so you would miss that metal support bar. So measure twice and cut once as they say
• I used a 1 inch wood bit and it went through that material in nothing flat so no need to push like you are trying to drill through a chunk of Oak,
• I only went in far enough to install the drains which is like 3 or 4 inches, but use your drains as a guide. I dod not pull one of the round out manuvers to make a pocket with the drill bit one the bit was inside the hull as I have heard others do.
• Jack up the boat using jack stands and blocks in combo so you can get it at least a foot higher than you normal highest parking position and let it drain and or drip till dry (mine took well over a week) so that any water in the lower forward bow section will migrate aft.
• Then go back and install you drains with plenty of RULE (but not gushing amounts so the drain does not work) and install your mounting screws. Quite simple really!

Couple of things to remember...

1. My old 210 was FULL of water (I suspect many, many, gallons of water) and though heavy did not sink and maybe sat a inch or so lower than normal when at rest in the water. So if you do not get a good seal with the rule on the drains, no big deal for she is not going to hit the bottom
2. One can always pull the drains back out, clean up the area and reinstall them if you do not like how they look or feel they are sealing.... In other words this is NOT a one time shot at installing them.
3. If water got in there before, more than likely it it will keep getting in. So when you pull it out of the water AND still get some drainage or drips after the hull is drained they first time, I would not sweat it... As I have stated several times in the past, from the ARK to the USS Enterprise they all leak water...
4. I did not have a cover on my 210 before the drains were installed and we got blasted that summer with a ton of storms (the ones that have numbers or names with them ) and rain. After I got the cover on the boat and was able to keep a lot of the "feet" of rainwater we were getting out, from that point forward I only got drips out of the drains and always left them open and the hull jacked up as high as possible when parked.

To me from that point forward the problem was SOLVED and I did not spend a lot of time of effort on trying to find all the tiny little spots that water "could" be getting into the inner hull. Here again, if you are only getting dripping after spending all day or days on the water maybe even getting caught out in the rain or heavy seas then who cares..., For the problem of all that weight (the real issue) is now gone / fixed since you can from that point forward remove any small amount of water that may return....

Hope this helps?